Can a story with a ’bad’ message be a good story? (30 posts)

  • Profile picture of Tola Odejayi Tola Odejayi (@TolaO) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Consider this:

    There is this story which has as its main character a person who steals, lies, cheats, rapes and murders his way to success without any remorse, and in many cases, without any justification. At the end of the story, the person is shown to be very rich with a high standing in his society, and he is also shown to be happy and satisified with his life. On the other hand, his victims continue to suffer the results of his activities.

    The story is written very well (i.e. no typos), with lots of research and attention to detail, and with very lyrical turns of prose.

    Would you call it a good story because of the reasons above (i.e. no typos, etc), or would you call it a bad story because it appears to celebrate what many consider immoral behaviour?

    Do you think that a good storyteller has an obligation to write stories that promote what many consider to be a positive message?

  • Profile picture of Jefsaraurmax Jefsaraurmax (@jefsaraurmax) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Tola, I see what you mean and I do believe the story writer has an obligation in a way.I can give you an example that shocked me when I was younger. Luc Besson who directed the movie “The Big Blue” which was a big phenomenon in France, also wrote afterward the movie “Nikita”. When I saw the movie, I couldn’t speak right after.I didn’t like the fact that Besson idealized a killer by making her likeable and it really bothered me a lot. Because of all the young people who liked his movies, I believed that he had an obligation not to send this kind of message that a killer can be a nice person. I was extremely disappointed and upset.
    Now this is a difficult subject because a movie like “Man of Fire” is a great movie but has also a likeable killer as main character.The difference is that he does get some kind of retaliation at the end.
    The problem one will encounter is “what is a positive message?” or “what is immoral behavior?” Depending on the culture or upbringing, not everyone will have the same idea of immoral behavior.Then you start going into the censure issues.
    So in sum, I think the pressure should be on the writer to write a story promoting a positive message because of the influence he/she could have on others, but from himself, not from society.

  • Profile picture of kaycee kaycee (@kaycee) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Well, I wouldn’t mind writing a story like that. The world isn’t a perfect place. As writers we have an obligation to write what is true, what is experienceable, what happens in the real world. The bad should also be represented in works of art. Such works may be unpopular, but so what? We have bad messages in movies and music, why not in written works?

    I enjoy the topics you start up.

  • Profile picture of Jaywriter Jaywriter (@jaywriter) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Every artist has an obligation to teach. No matter your form of art or genre, there must something other than just mere entertainment. Honestly, I can’t remember a movie that doesn’t has something positive about it.

    The Heat, The Bandits, The Getaway all had redemptive/repentance/regret kinda stuff at the end.

    @jef don’t know if you’ve seen No Country For Old Men by the Cohen Brothers. I didn’t quite get any clear moral lessons, like the film was a little weird.

    I would love to mention characters like The Joker in Dark Knight. Lovable villains but they still end up like villains.

    In all, as much as an artist tries to entertain, s/he shouldn’t miss out on the ‘didactic’ side of arts.

  • Profile picture of Jaywriter Jaywriter (@jaywriter) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Every artist has an obligation to teach. No matter your form of art or genre, there must something other than just mere entertainment. Honestly, I can’t remember a movie that doesn’t has something positive about it.

    The Heat, The Bandits, The Getaway all had redemptive/repentance/regret kinda stuff at the end.

    @jef don’t know if you’ve seen No Country For Old Men by the Cohen Brothers. I didn’t quite get any clear moral lessons, like the film was a little weird.

    I would love to mention characters like The Joker in Dark Knight. Lovable villains but they still end up like villains.

    In all, as much as an artist tries to entertain, s/he shouldn’t miss out on the ‘didactic’ side of arts.

  • Profile picture of Jaywriter Jaywriter (@jaywriter) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Every artist has an obligation to teach. No matter your form of art or genre, there must something other than just mere entertainment. Honestly, I can’t remember a movie that doesn’t has something positive about it.

    The Heat, The Bandits, The Getaway all had redemptive/repentance/regret kinda stuff at the end.

    @jef don’t know if you’ve seen No Country For Old Men by the Cohen Brothers. I didn’t quite get any clear moral lessons, like the film was a little weird.

    I would love to mention characters like The Joker in Dark Knight. Lovable villains but they still end up like villains.

    In all, as much as an artist tries to entertain, s/he shouldn’t miss out on the ‘didactic’ side of arts.

  • Profile picture of Jaywriter Jaywriter (@jaywriter) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Entertain, create unforgettable characters but above all teach us something new or remind us of something we already knew but might have forgotten. Chimamanda’s Purple Hibiscus and Half of a Yellow Sun good examples.

  • Profile picture of Eletrika Eletrika (@babyada) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    If it’s a real life experience, why not? Afterall, some people don’t serve the punishment for their evil deeds here on earth. E.g is Nigerian politicians. They always live their lives to the fullest and die natural deaths with all our monies stuffed in their foreign accounts.
    Finally, I don’t think there’s a perfect life and that can never make me change my belief that they must still serve their punishment in the afterworld.

  • Profile picture of Jefsaraurmax Jefsaraurmax (@jefsaraurmax) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Jay, I didn’t see “No Country for Old Men”.Will check out the story.What do you think of Ugwu in “Half of a Yellow Sun”?

  • Profile picture of kaycee kaycee (@kaycee) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    Jaywriter, I don’t think a writer has an obligation to pass a message. Writing is first and foremost an expression. An expression of feelings, opinions and beliefs. Passing a message is just a by product. A writer can damn well write anything he pleases. Writing is first for the writer.

  • Profile picture of Tola Odejayi Tola Odejayi (@TolaO) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    @Kaycee, @Babyada,

    So when a writer writes a story in which an ‘evil’ main character does well, you don’t think that he is encouraging people to do evil?

    If he is doing such a thing, is he very different from the person who incites others to kill?

  • Profile picture of kaycee kaycee (@kaycee) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    @Tola, you know its totally different.

  • Profile picture of Jaywriter Jaywriter (@jaywriter) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    @Kaycee I feel every artist, writers included, have that as an obligation.

    Henrik Ibsen, James Ene Henshaw, Athol Fugard, Arthur Miller, Shakespeare, Tewfik Al Hakim… They all educated their generations.

    For me, every artist has to educate, and educate good morals not musketeering morals oh.

  • Profile picture of Jaywriter Jaywriter (@jaywriter) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    @Kaycee I feel every artist, writers included, have that as an obligation.

    Henrik Ibsen, James Ene Henshaw, Athol Fugard, Arthur Miller, Shakespeare, Tewfik Al Hakim… They all educated their generations.

    For me, every artist has to educate, and educate good morals not musketeering morals oh.

  • Profile picture of Raymond Raymond (@raymond) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    …..And one work comes to mind…. A Clockwork Orange…. The creator of the story regrets its production because of its effect on the viewers at the time…

  • Profile picture of Raymond Raymond (@raymond) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    I won’t say a writer has an OBLIGATION per se….but the issue is the CONSEQUENCES. One can never tell how his/her work will impact the world, so it is pertinent for a Writer to think about the aftermath. It’s not really a matter of the world not being a perfect place, like @kaycee said. The truth is that Readers read to escape the harsh realities of life. So, If they find that their escape is no different from the World, why read/watch? They usually expect at least some form of retribution for evil in stories, except these stories are nothing but recounts of past happenings.
    But then again, it also depends on the aim of the work as well; if it is to be used as a Political Statement or something, well….

    But don’t look at me. I am a Horror writer. Sometimes my ghosts and monsters may not be killed. After all, evil never dies, it only sleeps…

  • Profile picture of Jaywriter Jaywriter (@jaywriter) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    @Raymond you stay in UK so I’ll give you a UK example.

    Most footballers in UK are paid to play football. But the have their obligations as role models. They are not paid for that but the FA, their managers, and the society at large expects them to be role models.

    I think educating, enlightening, enriching (the mind) is an obligation for every artist.

    Even Dracula must have morals na.

  • Profile picture of Tola Odejayi Tola Odejayi (@TolaO) said 3 months, 4 weeks ago ago:

    @Kaycee, it can be the same thing, unless you are saying the people will not be influenced by the writer’s story.

    @Raymond, once you say that it is pertinent for the writer to think about the consequences of his work, the issue of obligation has already entered the discussion… even if it just the obligation to think about those consequences (rather than to write or not to write). It is really a variant of the free speech debate…

    But really, my question wasn’t really whether the writer should write or not. It was: can such works can ever be considered as good writing? For example, included along with works by Wole Soyinka, Chinua Achebe, etc.

  • Profile picture of jchiemerie jchiemerie (@jchiemerie) said 3 months, 3 weeks ago ago:

    @Jaywriter, from what I know of literature, writers are not just individuals that are there to pass a ‘good’ message, like you claim. If so, who are pastors? who are motivational speakers? Who are imams? As far as I am concerned, literature is a mirror of life. It shows us the real life, from which the audience can pick whatever lesson they deem fit. It is not for the writer to show the audience a lesson he feels they should learn. Rather the audience get the thrills and pick what and what are consistent with their cultural, social and religious upbringing. For instance, in real life, if u see a ritualist that is successful, and has an easy-going life would it drive you to become a ritualist? After reading Purple Hibiscus which u pointed out as a ‘perfect book’, I would have chosen to hate Catholicism and despise anyone that I feel is an Eugene-character in real life, but No! I chose lessons like Anti-Westernization, etc. In Robin-hood, I would have chosen to become a thief, but No! I chose to see Robin’s good works alone. So since the world is diverse, and no one can adequately define the word GOOD across the board, it is for the writer to paint a picture of life, and let the audience sieve and learn what is good in their own understanding. I don’t think there is anything wrong if I write a story about, say…..Obasanjo who stole from Nigeria (as is gossipped oh) but now is living a peaceful, happy life. @Tola, when a writer writes a story in which an ‘evil’ main character does well, I would not think he is inciting people to do evil, rather I would think that the writer is actually trying to inform me that such ‘innocent’ villains exist, and that I should aid in the fight to bring them to book. It incites me to stop that kind of situation from ever happening in real life. Like I said, It depends on the message the audience want to get. A good writer is not one who passes a good message, if not all pastors might well qualify as good writers. Finally, returning to the discussion topic – Can a story with a ’bad’ message be a good story?- .Since there is no definite definition for ‘GOOD’, I’d take ‘GOOD’ to mean ‘WELL-WRITTEN’. A well-written story is a good story, irrespective of the message.

  • Profile picture of coxdappa coxdappa (@coxdappa) said 3 months, 3 weeks ago ago:

    While i will say it is good to bring out a positive moral angle to a storyline,i will strenously suscribe to the fact that writers should be limited to this.Every writer is entitled to express his thoughts in his own manner in so far as they do not run foul of defamatory laws.This will necesarily lead us to the great debate were some writers believe in arts for arts sake and others subscribe to the school of arts for life sake.Both sides have convincing arguments to support their point and it will really be highhandedness for anybody to tag as wrong as of the above stated situations.This brings to mind how many persons vilified Micheal Henchard for “extremely been punished” in THE MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE!Again, we enjoy the variety in writing:Comedy,tragedy or Tragicomedy.We cannot say one is better than the other but eveything depends on the perception of the writer which brings into focus the reality of life that our thoughts vary as our faces are different!

Switch to our mobile site